Dying Lighter Color Wood Black Experiment

[William Young]

I put this topic on the Segmented Turning board of my own Woodworking Friends site because black as well as white and colored veneers are used extensively in making segmented bowls and vessels.
I decided to share it here as well for the benefit of anyone that might be interested because wood veneer is also used by some in pen making and for some it is favored over using colored plastic veneers.



I have gathered various sources of information on how to dye veneer black so decided to try this particular method.
Why ? because it doesn't cost much and uses ingredients readily available . .
Apparently darker wood like walnut and oak with its tannin content works better in combination with the steel wool and vinegar solution so we will see how this goes with cherry and birch. These are the only two species of veneer I had to work with .

Here are the ingredients to start with.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/VinegarandSteelWool.jpg

To one quart of cider vinegar add one pad of steel wool . First wash the steel wool in warm soapy water because it contains oils to prevent rusting. . Rinse and dry either in the sun or in a regular warm oven on an aluminum pie plate. DO NOT use microwave oven for this. If rust forms when drying in the sun , it is not a problem.

Here is the steel wool in the vinegar right at the start. It should be left like that for several days or even weeks. Extra time will not matter.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/SteelWoolinVinegarDay1.jpg

Steel wool totally dissolved in one week.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/Dissolvedoneweek.jpg

Four pieces of veneer cut . two cherry and two birch.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/VeneerforDying.jpg

Soaking in solution with paper towel on bottom and between each piece and on top.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/Papertowelbetweenpieces.jpg

Covered with lid and waiting for complete saturation.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/Coveredinflatcontainer.jpg

After one day soak I removed veneer from liquid and put it between two pieces of plywood with a sheet of paper towel above and below and between every piece of veneer. Clamped it down tight and set aside to dry.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/Veneerclamped.jpg

After a couple days of being clamped between plywood and layers of paper towel , here is the result .

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/DyedVeneer.jpg.

I was curious to see if the dye was only on the surface or all the way through so I cut a corner off and took a photo of the edge. Although it was difficult to get a good edge photo, it is apparent that the dye did go all the way through .

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Tutorials/VeneerCrosscut.jpg

Conclusion.
Apparently woods with tannin content respond best to this method . The birch veneer obviously has low tannin content so didn't go black like the cherry veneer did under the same circumstances. . Walnut veneer is apparently a better choice than cherry but I did not have any to try.
It has been said that strong tea added to the vinegar and steel wool helps some because of its strong tannin content but I did not try that . I probably will the next time.

Next experiment whenever I get time will be with Rit dyes with DNA to get more colors of pieces than plain black.

Have never tried aniline dyes but they are supposed to be very good. Just don't want to tie up the money of having to buy them on line and pay S/H etc. until I hear and see proof that it is the best way to go. .

Sure, I know colored veneer is available on line but I enjoy doing stuff like this myself if it is at all practical . It is the price per square foot of pre-made ones verses shop made ones that must be figured in.

[Larry in Harrow]

Ferric oxide plus tannic acid - oh never mind! Playing with the stuff is the fun part! Carry on William.
By the way, you can dye your fingers just about any colour with analines, and it lasts for days.

[William Young]

Thanks for the ferric oxide tip . Wonder where a person would get some.

By the way, you can dye your fingers just about any colour with analines, and it lasts for days.


Now that's a happy thought . I must try that http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/Gifs/scratchingchin.gif

[Larry in Harrow]

Morning William,
Ferric oxide is just iron oxide, rust. I believe it's the red one so I should have said ferrous oxide which is black.
Anyway you are making an iron compound by disolving the steel wool in vinegar and it is reacting with the tannins in the wood. I was just being a wise ass again.
This works best on oak (not the wise ass part) which is high in tannic acid. If you have ever gotten the black stain glueing up an oak panel where the clamps contacted it, that's the stuff.
This is a very old method of dyeing wood. Another one for oak is fuming with ammonia which produces a rich dark brown colour. Be very careful if you try this as the fumes are nasty. Search "Fumed Oak" on google.

[William Young]

Rust makes sense . Someone told me that rather than washing the oil out of steel wool and drying it in the oven it is better to wash it and set it outside to dry and let it rust before using it.
I don't believe oak is a good one to use for veneer because of its open grain but yes, I do realize it is high in tannic acid.
Others that have used this method have had good luck with walnut. It was interesting to see the way it worked with cherry and not with birch. Obviously because of the difference in the tanic acid content,

[Rick Gibson]

William if you want to add more tannin go in to your local wine making shop, most sell tannin in small bags to add to home made fruit wines.

[Bellsy]

William, how long did it take for the veneer to dry out before it was usable?

Thanks

Mr. Dave

[William Young]

William, how long did it take for the veneer to dry out before it was usable?

Thanks

Mr. Dave

After I took it out of the press it was almost dry. Then totally dry overnight .
I was pleased with the reults but I just got a message from someone that has had lots of luck and experience with aniline dyes and ordinary H2O .

Here is what the vinegar/steel wool veneer looked like above and below the feature ring.

http://www.penturnersparadise.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=5217

The aniline dye however does seem to be an easier way to do it and of course there are colors rather than just black with the vinegar method.

Think I will order some of those dyes since I intend to get more into segmantation which should result in more profit than pens for me seeing as not near as many people are into it. I also find it to be a nice challenge to see what designs I can come up with. Like pens, there are never two the same.

[Bellsy]

Thanks for the feedback William I do want to give this a go and attempting the vinegar method is what I want to try first. Like Larry said, "Playing with the stuff is the fun part!"

I look forward to getting started sing my own press and doing the segmented turning. The challenge is what I like and I am sure getting all of my angles cut properly is going to be some what frustrating in the beginning, but I know it will all work out in the end. A few of members of our woodturning guild have done segmenting and the results they have come up with is just fabulous.

I have lots of veneer on hand and can't wait to try this out for both the pens and the segmented bowls.

Mr. Dave