Carbide tool thoughts?

[lazylathe]

Hi All,

I have been researching the carbide turning tools out there.
Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on them.
Read all the posts on here and on IAP using the SEARCH tool!
Been in contact with a guy on IAP that makes them himself, he has very good reviews from all the members that have bought from him.
There is also a line that is available in the states that also looks pretty good.

Any comments from people with experience with them would be appreciated.

Just looking into alternatives to sharpening and maybe to try something new!

Andrew

[PJT]

Andrew I just bought one. it has a 1/4 inch cutter on one end and a 1/2 inch on the other I found the one I have easy to use . Its seems to work best on end grain cutting best. I have used it a couple of times to finish cut pens use a light touch to start. The price is up there on these type of tools but no sharping is good. That said I have just had a lesson on sharping and hope some stuck .
Pete

[Larry in Harrow]

On the other Hand!

Some of us neandertals appreciate the feel and satifaction of a well sharpened blade cleanly cutting a workpiece and the quality surface it leaves.


NOT POSSIBLE WITH CARBIDE TOOLING!

Thanks but NO thanks on the carbide cutters.

[lazylathe]

LOL Larry!

I like sharpening too!
The Wolverine jig works wonders on HSS!!!
Call me the techie, i like new toys and technology that works with me not against me...

But i like to look at altenatives and get a consensus from the people in the know.

I thought this might be a bit contentious....

All in good spirit though!:D

Andrew

[Crickett]

We have the Wolverine jig as well but it doesn't work ... still in the box. The sharpening system I use is called Pete ... perfect every time! ;)

Pete, I know, if I would quite finding more things for you to do for me it would have been done ...

[mywoodshopca]

I cant remember the last time I used a chisel. All I use is the carbide for everything.

It cuts so fast and nice. Cutting resin blanks its like silly string confetti coming off compared to what I used to get with chisels (but I wasnt a pro at sharpening them)

Try the carbide - you wont regret it :)

I made my own tool and bought the inserts.

[big dipper]

Is it possible to angle the tool and get a shear scraping effect? at least for light finish cuts? I understand it's normally a roughing tool, flat on the rest and jam it in! Maybe not so on acylics.

[mywoodshopca]

Is it possible to angle the tool and get a shear scraping effect? at least for light finish cuts? I understand it's normally a roughing tool, flat on the rest and jam it in! Maybe not so on acylics.


Yes, I sometimes cut with the very edge for a thin line. I can also do the curves on bottle stoppers with it that way.

It takes a little practice at the start, but soon as thats done there is no problem doing finish cuts on one.

[William Young]

I cant remember the last time I used a chisel. All I use is the carbide for everything.

It cuts so fast and nice. Cutting resin blanks its like silly string confetti coming off compared to what I used to get with chisels (but I wasnt a pro at sharpening them)

Try the carbide - you wont regret it :)

I made my own tool and bought the inserts.


Which inserts and from who did you get them ?

Complete carbide tool with cutter , shaft and handle are very expensive and appear similar to my Oland tool but of course the carbide doesn't require sharpening all the time like the HSS cutters do.
I only have one carbide cutting tool . It has a round cutter and is the most useless tool I have ever owned. I got it a couple years ago . I have gone back and tried it many times before giving up on it . The manufacturer even sent me a second cutter no charge to try and it was exactly the same as the first one.
It sits in my tool rack never to be used again unless I can find a cutter to attach to it that will actually cut the way a tool should cut. .

[William Young]

Andrew I just bought one. it has a 1/4 inch cutter on one end and a 1/2 inch on the other I found the one I have easy to use . Its seems to work best on end grain cutting best. I have used it a couple of times to finish cut pens use a light touch to start. The price is up there on these type of tools but no sharping is good.
Pete


What make and model and price is that double ended one Pete ?

[ttcanuck]

William, I've got some cultured marble I'd like to try your carbide tool on. If you're willing to part with it PM with a price. :)

[mywoodshopca]

Hi,

I use the 15x15 square ones by Ken Ferrell. (http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53623&highlight=carbide)

I made my own tool by using the bar from an old prybar and cutting the inset out and drilling a hole through it for screwing the insert into.

I can take a quick video sometime if you like of turning something hard like the EOS (fake stone) or turning a money bottlestopper, etc, so you can see how it cuts.

I get many hours of use off each side of the insert and it can be rotated 4 times.
























Which inserts and from who did you get them ?

Complete carbide tool with cutter , shaft and handle are very expensive and appear similar to my Oland tool but of course the carbide doesn't require sharpening all the time like the HSS cutters do.
I only have one carbide cutting tool . It has a round cutter and is the most useless tool I have ever owned. I got it a couple years ago . I have gone back and tried it many times before giving up on it . The manufacturer even sent me a second cutter no charge to try and it was exactly the same as the first one.
It sits in my tool rack never to be used again unless I can find a cutter to attach to it that will actually cut the way a tool should cut. .

[William Young]

I think that Staples is selling complete pens, ready to go. You don't have to sharpening anything or learn any other stupid skill like that. Of course there is the problem of opening the plastic package- Maybe a sharp knife?.
Anybody using carbide knives?

Yep, so does Wal-Mart. :p
I was in the Sandpoint , Idaho store yesterday afternoon and spotted package of ballpoint pens . 12 (twelve) pens for a dollar. :D :) :D

Strange thing is , they write on all kinds of paper that the refills from most of the expensive kits wont. :eek:

[William Young]

Hi,

I use the 15x15 square ones by Ken Ferrell. (http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53623&highlight=carbide)

I made my own tool by using the bar from an old prybar and cutting the inset out and drilling a hole through it for screwing the insert into.

I can take a quick video sometime if you like of turning something hard like the EOS (fake stone) or turning a money bottlestopper, etc, so you can see how it cuts.

I get many hours of use off each side of the insert and it can be rotated 4 times.

Thanks Ken and yes a video would be great .
I never connected your different screen there here and there until just now when I opened your link. . :o

[William Young]

William, I've got some cultured marble I'd like to try your carbide tool on. If you're willing to part with it PM with a price. :)

I wouldn't sell or even give that tool to anyone for two reasons.

(1) the cutter is useless

(2) I have plans for using the handle for something.

I have no intention of calling down the person I got it from but could supply website sals address by PM . It is possible he actually did make some that were good but I have never heard of a single case of that (yet). . They have been available for many years and one would think there would have been some good recommendations for them by satisfied users by now .
They are available in round cutters at 1/2" and 5/8" and 3/4" plus two different square tips and one triangular pointed one.
They are all $46.00 each for the complete tool with cutter and at least I will be able to use the handle so it isn't a total loss. I could have bought cold rolled handle stock like that for a LOT less though just like I used for my Oland tool. The grip on it is just a golf club grip and If the cutter had worked I would probably have made a long and strong hardwood handle for it.

Mine is the 5/8" round and his instructions recommend very high speed for it to work right. I can create some sawdust with it if I run my lathe at ridiculous and dangerous high speed..

Here is the tool and a close up of the cutter .

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/WW%20Jigs%20and%20Tools/ThingsW5eithsSmall.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/WillysWoodcrafting/WW%20Jigs%20and%20Tools/carbidecuttercloseupSmall.jpg

[lazylathe]

I have seen those!
The guy has a website with paypal links attached to all the tools he sells.
They are made from golf club handles...

I never gave it a second look because they look home made and not quite up to par when compared to the others available.

If i were to choose, i would most likely get from the guy on IAP or from the other one that sells on the net. They are even sold by the other pen guy in Toronto.
So from that i would surmise they are a better quality tool!

Andrew

[mywoodshopca]

Thanks Ken and yes a video would be great .
I never connected your different screen there here and there until just now when I opened your link. . :o


Nope.. I'm not Ken.. he is the guy I buy the inserts from :)

Jason

[lazylathe]

The ones Jason buys are the ones i was looking at.
Ken has a great reputation on IAP for these tools that he makes.

Not sure if he has any videos of them in use...

Andrew

[William Young]

Nope.. I'm not Ken.. he is the guy I buy the inserts from :)

Jason

OOPPSS ,
Tho Thorry :D

[big dipper]

William, I THINK the problem with the golf club tool is the carbide is a standard metalworking insert. Not enough clearance, and not really sharp by woodworking standards. They do make special ground and polished inserts for machining aluminum with a lot of clearance, that are darn near razor sharp, and quite expensive.
The ones Jason mentioned are probably the way to go. Ya know, MAYBE with a little reshaping of the insert "pocket" those could be used on you golf club tool?

[William Young]

I have never golfed in my life so I have no idea what a golf club looks like or the weight of it up close in my hand .

But with the tool I showed it does use a Medalist rubber golf club grip but are the shafts of golf clubs really that heavy ? Are they made of solid steel ? If so a full length golf must be terribly heavy especially in the quantity of them they carry around in that container (whatever they call it) on wheels or on a shoulder strap.

I am thinking that some here are confused into thinking that it is a piece of golf club with a cutter on the end where in fact it is a heavy piece of what appears to be cold rolled steel same as on my Oland tool and only the grip is from a golf club.

As for the round cutter on that tool ,. I can rub my finger over the edge with a lot of force . It is better for a bruise than a cut. :mad:

[lazylathe]

My Mistake...

It is a golf club grip!

PM'd you the link William.

Andrew

[mywoodshopca]

Ya know, MAYBE with a little reshaping of the insert "pocket" those could be used on you golf club tool?

I am sure that it could be.. If you rub your fingers across the end of mine.. you have a nice cut, so they are plenty sharp :D

[big dipper]

Yes, William, golf club grip only. I don't golf either, but know the shafts are tubular...used to be steel, probably carbon fiber or kevlar of some other exotica now. Apparently, folks call it a "golf club tool" just because of the grip :-) That really looks like it would be a nice handle, and likely work good with the right insert.

[William Young]

My Mistake...

It is a golf club grip!

PM'd you the link William.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew but I have had that link on my computer for years and replied to your PM stating my true feelings about that tool rather than put it here.

[William Young]

Further to this discussion on carbide tools

Couple questions

(1) Does anyone here know the thread size of the screws on both the easywood tools and the woodchuck tools . I might be able to adapt my worthless tool to a new cutter from one of those suppliers. Of course I would still have just a round piece of cheap cold rolled steel with a rubber sleeve on it and the other two types are using square stock so I don't know if that would make a difference or not to the operation of it even with a good cutter . They always show them being used with the bar flat on the tool rest and parallel with the floor.

(2) I have watched the twenty short videos over several times here

http://easywoodtools.com/videos.php

And he mentions the neutral rake angle several times but doesn't go into any detail as to what that means.
Knowing that might be useful for ones that want to buy square steel stock and screws and the cutters to make their own . Whatever is meant by the negative rake angle could possibly make a difference in the way the cutters work so good as shown in the videos.

[big dipper]

Good point about the square shank, William. I imagine with a round shank and a square insert the tool will want to twist in your hands. The round shank might still work as a shear scraper, using light cuts and with the tool twisted in your hands so the top side of the insert is at an angle. I did see somewhere, a square shank tool where the insert pocket was milled corner-to-corner of the shank, and was meant to be used flat on the rest, putting the insert at a 45* angle.

As far as the "rake angle", I can tell you what it means in a machine shop/metal althe. The rake angle is on the top of the tool. BACK RAKE...Neutral or zero would mean the top side is parallel to the floor. Positive, the top face would be tilted back toward you, like a spindle gouge, Negative, the top face would be tilted away from you, like a scraper. SIDE RAKE...pretty much the same, but at 90* to the "back rake"...twisting the tool with your hands changes the side rake from negative to zero to positive. CLEARANCE ANGLES on the front or side allow a tool to cut. There is some misuse of terminology, so you never know for sure, but I believe in this case it is meant the top of the tool is parallel to the floor...in BOTH directions.

[big dipper]

William, I believe the screws are 6mm diameter x 1mm pitch

[William Young]

William, I believe the screws are 6mm diameter x 1mm pitch

I have no way of measuring screw threads but wife wants to go to town for a few things. Running low on Craft Dinner :eek:

Think I will take the screw from this round bar stock and see if I can match it up with a nut thread at the hardware store just to know what size it is.
I will start at around 6 mm as you suggested.

[William Young]

Good point about the square shank, William. I imagine with a round shank and a square insert the tool will want to twist in your hands. The round shank might still work as a shear scraper, using light cuts and with the tool twisted in your hands so the top side of the insert is at an angle. I did see somewhere, a square shank tool where the insert pocket was milled corner-to-corner of the shank, and was meant to be used flat on the rest, putting the insert at a 45* angle.

As far as the "rake angle", I can tell you what it means in a machine shop/metal althe. The rake angle is on the top of the tool. BACK RAKE...Neutral or zero would mean the top side is parallel to the floor. Positive, the top face would be tilted back toward you, like a spindle gouge, Negative, the top face would be tilted away from you, like a scraper. SIDE RAKE...pretty much the same, but at 90* to the "back rake"...twisting the tool with your hands changes the side rake from negative to zero to positive. CLEARANCE ANGLES on the front or side allow a tool to cut. There is some misuse of terminology, so you never know for sure, but I believe in this case it is meant the top of the tool is parallel to the floor...in BOTH directions.

Good explanation Jeff .

In regards to the screw thread on my round tool I tried it in a 6mm nut at the hardware store and it was a little too tight to fit but a 7mm nut was too big.
It felt like it was almost the right size but would strip out if forced in.
So then I went to standard North American or Imperial (or whatever they call the way it used to be here) and it fit a 1/4 x 20 nut perfectly.
If I had known that I could have tried it on an ordinary 1/4" nut here at home but at least I now know.
So if I wanted to go to a easywood or a woodchuck I suppose it would be best to buy one complete tool first and switch cutters back and forth if I didn't want to buy a new shaft for every size of cutter.
Heck we sometines switch eight screws to change jaws on a chuck so it doesn't seem like much of a chore to switch cutters with just one screw . . . unless . . . the different cutters will only fit properly on a different shaft made for each one of them. . . dunno. .

Maybe someone here that has been there . . . done that . . . will know for sure.

[big dipper]

I have no way of measuring screw threads but wife wants to go to town for a few things. Running low on Craft Dinner :eek:

Think I will take the screw from this round bar stock and see if I can match it up with a nut thread at the hardware store just to know what size it is.
I will start at around 6 mm as you suggested.

I believe the commercial carbide insert screws are hardened, maybe a Grade-8?

[Dudley Young]

I use two carbide tools. The Rotondo for the pen barrels and the Skogger for cutting the tenons on the bullets for the 30-06 pens. Get them from my friend Peter up in Canada. Nice fellow and great tools. You have to use a little different pitch and angle with the carbide tools. I was a machinist for 30 years so carbide is not new to me. Had no trouble right from the get go.

[glen r]

I have both, square and round, of the golf club handle chisels and I have not used my HSS chisels since I got these. The pictures in the above posts show a flat round cutter which is not what you get with the golf club ones. The cutters are made to cut wood not steel. The chisels are round which I prefer because I use them in a cutting angle not a scraping angle. The round cutter works best as a cutter vs. a scraper and I can take ribbons off any material that I have worked on todate. The square cutter works just like a very sharp skew chisel that gets sharpened by turning the insert. The carbide edge lasts must longer than a HSS edge. I HATE sharpening and am not good at it so these solve that problem. These chisels work for me but may not be what others prefer.

The attached pictures show the cutting tips and angle of the cutters. The round cutter has a chisel style edge.